Of Coarse you are right Chasbo. Believe it or not, that was one of many reasons i left the Military to become a Private Military Contractor way back in the 80s , completing 3 Combat Tours of Africa. I wanted to work to agendas i had more control over. Then i took the first of two Contracts in Yugoslavia, were i had to watch UN Soldiers, some of whom i knew from my time Serving the queen, who due to specific rules of engagement could not act until either they were fired on directly or by force of action there lives were at risk. As Official Special Forces seconded to the Official Fragmented Government at the time, we had no such limitations, I have seen up close War and all that is Base of men. Yugoslavia is the closest to what we are seeing now in Ukraine except there it was full on Ethnic Cleansing. Africa  was hard as things go on there everyday, things you do not see in the news or read in the papers, but it still goes on regardless.

Powerful men will always blur the lines, then, now and in the future, all we can do in the Democratic world is to use our vote and hope those who we choose do the right thing, The Russian Federation do not have this option, the people have things spoon fed to them, but in this modern world of media, ways will be found to access the truth. The time to Stand and be counted is not far off now, i respect other learned views like yours Chasbo good or bad, i may not always agree, but i do respect a man who stands up and tells the truth, black white or indifferent.

I will certainly be slammed for this but I see the US headed toward autocratic dictatorship via the machinations of DJT and the republican party.  As others have suggested the US has engaged in imperialistic global power grabs throughout its history; however, the constitution has always given us respite from that in granting the ability to change government peacefully.  This year and in 2024 that possibility may cease to exist and we will have our own Putin or Xi Jinping running the US government, the constitution and bill of rights completely abrogated, perhaps for all time.  There is a reason that DJT and his minions worship Putin and that Putin assisted DJT in 2016 and 2020.  If you vote republican I challenge you to differentiate between what you see happening in the US and what is going on in the RF, or what has already happened there to lead to this tragic state of affairs.

So yes, I am very scared that we will go down the same road as the RF and in very short order.

let he who is without sin cast the first stone

This was to be a non-political thread, but no, a left wing nut job had to stir things up.

Russia, Russia, Russia! Give the conspiracy crap a rest.

We are not minions and we don't worship Puketin or anyone else. I see something happening right now and it has nothing to do with Trump. Who was the President that keep the bad actors in line for 4 years and who is the President that bends over and spreads his checks ever time Puketin says "If you do that I will whack your pee pee."?

Yeah, keep politics and Trump out of it.... 2024 is still a long way off and hopefully the world will have learnt some valuable lessons by then..... like love thy neighbour as you would love yourself.

That's got my vote...oops...no politics implied.

who or what is Puketin ???

Putin: Dictator of the RF.

Puke: Vomit, regurgitate, throw up, spew chunks

"Puketin"

It's an expression of disrespect.

As a long term Military Man, i feel i need to explain about Artillery and Rockets.

Artillery

Even though we have had this form of warfare for Hundreds of years, it is still , even now not an exact Delivery System. Artillery is cheap to produce and launch, but make no mistake, it is not a Smart weapon. Putin and his Generals can actually make the claim "They Are Not Targeting Civilians" (please do not have a go at me), this is just how it is. Yes we have all seen "Smart Weapons In Action" which can hit a Penny from miles away, but Artillery is not even close to smart weapon Systems. This is why prosecuting Putin and his Generals will be difficult. Cruise Missiles are a different thing completely, and this is how they hit a base just inside the Polish Border in the full understanding it would land were it was meant to and hence a legitimate Target.

Rocket Artillery

The main difference with Rockets is the propulsion system, early made Rockets using older Tech can be just as inaccurate as Artillery, but Modern Rocket Launch Weapon Systems usually have some form of GPS inside making them a lot more accurate. Putin, due to the cost of war, will almost certainly but not exclusively be using Rockets that have not changed much in design since 1969. Do not get me wrong, Putin will have the latest possible tech in Rockets just like the rest of the first world, but as the tech improves so does the cost and to Level Ukrainian Cities on mass like we are seeing right now, plenty of low spec Rockets will be used widely.

Putin and his security council will start and already is using Smart weapon systems in lower numbers at first to make precise strikes, but all modern warfare strategies at first use Artillery and older rocket in such numbers we are seeing in Ukraine now, very cheap to produce on mass and to Deliver, just not accurate.

Once Putin thinks his Army has surrounded all the key cities he has his grubby eyes on, then we will see more of his High Value and Very accurate Weapon Systems brought to bear on said cities as he will want to decide(probably already has decided) which infrastructure he wants to try to keep intact or as much as war allows. Odessa could have already been destroyed as it is a crucial link to the black sea and is important to both sides as shipping in stuff is far more productive than any other means in the long term, but it still stands and that is no mistake on Putin's thinking.

The Ukrainian people will make him fight for every inch of ground, i admire this beyond belief, but make no mistake, due to this he will change plans soon enough and bring Terrible Weapon Systems into the fray.

Zelensky is 100% correct, we will need to stand up and be counted, either that be closing the sky's and coming into direct possible conflict with RF Air Force or bordering countries( it will be the old Russian satellite countries) entering on the side of the Ukrainian Forces, then all our Governments will have to explain, and we will hear the phrase,

"Why Not Yesterday"

Doing my part and No matter what, I Stand With Ukraine.

I do not understand the hesitation of the no fly zone. Surely the west has a big enough lead over Russia in regards to air superiority that it would be more of a show of force.

RF has nuke  supersonics that can dodge and currently cannot be intercepted by the US

and the danger to one nuke WW3 exists

And then there's Pootin =  poo tin, shit can, outdoor toilet, thunderbox, and 'dunny' the Aussie version.

Another expression of disrespect.

During the Vietnam conflict The U.S. bombed the hell out of North Vietnam. Hanoi was reduced to rubble. You think women, children, old people, babies weren't killed? Of course they were. In WWII Tokyo was literally burned to a crisp. There were firestorms in the streets. Many civilians were killed. This is war. This is modern war. Dresden Germany was bombed over the period of a few days. Many of the bombs were incendiaries and as many as 30,000 died. Many many women and children died in the fires. Total War. Look what Sherman did in The South during the civil war. He waged war on anyone in his path. War is hell no matter who wages it. I could go on and on with examples. We could go back to ancient times. Sacking of cities. Whole populations decimated. Mans cruelty to man seemingly knows no limits.

This is happening again in Ukraine. Don't get me wrong. I'm on Ukraine's side. I'm from the West. I believe in Democratic-Republics. I don't go for the authoritarian form of governments like in Russia and China. I'm not bringing all that other stuff other than to illustrate that we shouldn't be surprised by war. It's terrible.

They're showing what Assad and Putin did in Syria. Seems to me we in the West looked the other way when that happened. Shame on us. A lot of people seem to be acting like this is the first time civilians have been bombed. It's not. The U.S, did it in Iraq for Christs sake! 

What if the West has to engage Russia in Nuclear war? It could destroy the whole world as we know it. What would China do if that happened? Would they join in? Would they take advantage of the situation and try attacking The U.S. , Australia and Japan? We'd have to nuke them as well. Where would it end? What would be left of civilization? Of mankind? Talk about Total war. This would take that to a level not thought possible.

I'm not scared. I've been living with the threat of total nuclear destruction my whole life. When I was a kid I was one of the kids who had to Duck and Cover. If it comes it comes. Just want it to be quick.

All this and how the Earth has been raped environmentally well I just don't think humans deserve this planet. Humans are evil by nature and that's the bottom line.

again a true well presented contribution ,respect

OK...so we lasted 1 and a 1/2 pages before it got political...as in Republican vs Democrat [American] so sadly folks you now need to go to Joe User to continue.